“‘Shit Yeah’ is 2015’s ‘Fuck No’ but with more ‘YOLO.'”

Michael Nieling is a designer, educator, father, dog owner, and full-time spaz. He is the creative director at Ocupop—an agency of creatives, graphic designers, Web designers, Web developers, commercial artists, trendspotters, branding experts, fashionistas, and computer nerds—and also teaches logo design at the Milwaukee Institute of Art & Design.

Splitting time between Hawaii, California, and Wisconsin, if he’s not on a plane, he’s likely somewhere shouting about design. Or just shouting in general. With expletives. Lots of expletives.

Trust me, you don’t want me to paraphrase this. Here is my (slightly pared-down) Q-and-A with Ocupop founder and creative director Michael Nieling on his upcoming SXSW session, “Screw ‘Fuck No,’ Say ‘Shit Yeah!'”

Q: What is the focus of your session?

A: It’s basically the flip side of last year’s talk, “How to Say ‘Fuck No’ & Still Have Them Love You,” which was about positioning yourself as an authority and being efficient and effective and doing it in a respectful and justified way.

At my agency, a lot of our success has been predicated on our ability to say “Fuck No” to people. Our whole philosophy at the agency is that we don’t give you options, we give you solutions. We come to the table as a creative firm, and we don’t slide a piece of paper across the table with 12 logos on it and 10 campaign slogans and ask what you like. Because we don’t fucking care what you like—we care about what works.

But we can’t just slide a piece of paper across the table with one logo on it and say, “Here, asshole, that’s what you paid us $100,000 for.” We have to say, “Here’s why…” So then, we take an hour and a half going through our whole process—explaining how we got to each point, why something worked, or why something didn’t work.

That’s a huge part of me, and that’s a huge part of our company. We really believe in talking through things. And we never give people ideas, we just give them solutions. It’s all about this rigor of justifying what you’re doing.

So, last year was all about saying “Fuck No.” But you can’t always say “Fuck No,” because nothing is going to happen if you say “Fuck No” all of the time.

“Shit Yeah” is all about how nothing comes from “Fuck No,” which, I know, makes me sound like a fucking hypocrite. You have to have a rubric or a set of criteria that you use to make decisions in such a way that you don’t say “Fuck No” to things that might be great opportunities. At the end of the day, it comes down to having the gumption and the framework to know when to drop which epithet. Is it “Fuck No” or “Shit Yeah” this time?

For us—not only for the agency but also for my other startups—we’ve taken a ton of huge risks. And some of them have blown up horribly, and I’ll tell those stories. But some of them have begotten tons of success and tons of opportunity.

Q: How do you know if you’re dealing with a “Fuck No” situation or a “Shit Yeah” situation?

A: It’s basically setting rules. With “Fuck No,” we have rules, we have red flags, e.g., we don’t work with committees, we only work with decision-makers. And for “Shit Yeah,” it’s a little less formulaic. It’s about getting yourself out there, but at the same time, don’t hesitate to move on. Say “Shit Yeah,” but also, don’t be afraid to shut it down, because you don’t want to waste your time.

And so, there is a rule there: Have a clear-cut goal for the conversation, for the project, or for the relationship, whatever the case might be. And if you see you’re not headed in that direction, either change course or cut it off.

“Shit Yeah” is all about charging ahead. Shoot first, ask questions later. But there are still rules and a framework you need to have, which we’ll talk about.

Q: What advice do you have for decision-makers in your field?

A: You need to have a balance of “Fuck No” and “Shit Yeah” in your life. You need to have a set of rules that you can apply to decisions and to relationships and opportunities that give you a quick read on whether it’s worth diving into headfirst and saying “Shit Yeah,” or whether it merits saying “Fuck No” to immediately.

Saying “Shit Yeah” is just as liberating and empowering as saying “Fuck No,” but you have to have the framework to know which answer to give.

And secondly, being comfortable with failure. You’re going to do it wrong a fair amount of the time. But at the end of the day, failing is the way you learn. And so by saying “Shit Yeah” more often, you might fail more often, but you’re going to get a clearer framework with which to make those decisions. And with that, you’re going to make more right decisions and fail less and less. I have found that to be true very, very tangibly in my life.

If you’re really putting yourself out there, you just get better at shit.

When, Where & More:

Saturday, March 14
11 a.m.-noon

JW Marriott
Salon D
110 E. 2nd St.

More information on this session can be found here: http://schedule.sxsw.com/2015/events/event_IAP42950.